Joy is that emotion/feeling/state where in that particular moment – everything is right in your own little world. No concern for how we look, no worries about family or friends, no apprehension about work, no negative thoughts about money issues, no thoughts about the state of affairs in our city, country or the world etc. You are just wrapped up in whatever you are doing at that particular moment. I don’t agree with you when you write “A more accurate portrait of joy includes the pang—the inconsolable longing and unsatisfied desire that accompanies her. This challenges portraits of joy that focus exclusively on her lightheartedness.” Joy is no longer joy when this longing and unsatisfied desire appears. It becomes something less than joy – mere satisfaction or something even less? - Ken Broadhead
Thanks for this really thoughtful comment, Ken! I'll be interested to hear what you think about the pang of joy once you read Chapter 5: Longing. I might not persuade you, but I suspect it'll at least spark some good conversation :)
I have read Chapter 5 quickly and will be going over it more closely later this week. When I read your Invitation and you discussed your severe depression, I was struck by your description of joy coming back into your life. You were sitting on your couch but not doing anything else. You were not conciously thinking of anything else when joy came back. I think the reason for joy to make an appearance was that God saw that you had made "room" for joy to come back and, by His grace, it did.
Comments on Chapter 5 - Joy is the MSG of emotions and she does stir us up for more. And that’s why we go back to what was gave us joy in the first place –reading a book, eating your favorite food, going dancing etc. But the joy only lasts for as long as we are reading the book, eating our favorite food or dancing the night away. I will concede that the joy might last a little longer but then she “slips through our fingers.” Joy, like other emotions, is not a constant companion for most, if not all of us. When we experience a longing for something, we do have that ache or pang for it. But I don’t agree with C.S. Lewis that joy includes these things. You (Alastair) suggest “it’s easier to embrace a reductionistic picture of joy. We prefer joy to show her best side ...” You go on to say “... the moment we become aware of joy she waves and skips away. Then our hearts rejoice and ache as her shadow stretches and then fades.” I have difficulty with agreeing that joy waves and skips away the moment we become aware of it. I think we can hold on to the joy after becoming aware of it. I believe that once we feel that ache, the joy is gone. Or at least something less than joy is present. If this is considered a reductionistic picture of joy, then I guess I view it as such.
Alastair, this is the most interesting part of the book to date. I am looking forward to the rest of it.
I relate to what you say Joy is Ken and true when we feel a longing and desires are unsatisfied it feels less than joyful. As I read this, the words “count it all joy” came to me which led me to look up the verse
“My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.”
James 1:2-4
Testing and producing patience for sure but not always easy sitting with it.
So why is joy so elusive? - It is so elusive for a number of reasons. 1) Our attention is directed at too many things at once. We are seldom able to devote our concentration on one thing for any period of time. We have allowed the cell phone to “rule” us. When that phone rings or we hear the “ping” of a new message coming in, we stop everything to deal with it. How many times do you check your phone every day? 2) The demands of our family or work life and even our recreational life make for a lot of opportunities for joy to be missed. The widespread use of drugs by young people who live at home has caused enormous disruption to “normal” family life for the other members and has resulted in many cases of joy turned to despair, anger etc. The work life for many people brings them no real joy. It could be just general dissatisfaction, low pay, bad work environment etc. 3) The economical state of the country – whether it is the high cost of rent or mortgage, the high cost of food or the cost of utilities – has caused for an absence of joy in many situations. You are hard pressed to be joyful when you know you don’t have enough money to pay rent & buy food. There are people who work 2 and sometimes 3 part time jobs to make ends meet. 4) The mental state of many people can find no reason for joy. In Canada, suicide is the second leading cause of death for those aged between 15-34. One only has to look at the death rate by drug overdose in this province to see that something is wrong here. In 2021, 12.3 million Americans had suicidal thoughts. I’m sure there are people who feel the only place they will find joy is in the dictionary.
Not to be overly spiritual about it but I think Joy is a fruit of the Spirit, and is elusive in good part because the Spirit is. There are patterns and ways of participating with both, but neither can be captured or altogether “figured out”, or something like that.
Joy is in part, a deep sense of contentment, with a bubbling-over type of excitement to it (her), not driven or rocked by our circumstances. Before beginning to read this book, I jotted down that Joy cannot be cultivated by us, but is provided as a gift from God, as it transcends our human emotions. I am excited to explore how this cultivation might occur!
Ooo! Calling joy 'her'! I like it! You're on top of your reading :) It seems everyone in the comments, thus far, feel the tension between the giftedness of joy and our role in experiencing joy. I do hope my book will help clarify our part in it all.
Joy is when my whole body is smiling inside and out.
Overthinking takes away my joy. The enemy tries to remind me of things I don’t like about myself which is distracting and takes away my joy.
It’s not a good feeling but I keep reminding myself what God loves about me. Sometimes it’s an uncomfortable process but it does bring me back to joy. I believe it’s God trying to tell me, be still and know that I am God as I ask, what are you trying to reveal to me. Bring me back to just being wholly with you
I love how you see the embodiment of joy! Gerald Arbuckle says joy is "laughter of the heart." That makes me think of how you see joy as your body smiling inside and out. I too see a connection between love and joy. Actually, I see joy as a dance between the love and peace of God. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Linda!
Joy is a fruit of the Spirit and a by product of trusting in God’s plan & daily giving ourselves over to God’s will. It’s part of God’s peace beyond understanding and an inner knowledge that everything will work out for the best. When God leads it gives us freedom. And we need to ask for joy and believe it can be ours.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Pam! You get at the need for intentionality nicely. We can't manufacture joy but we can certainly keep our hearts open to it.
You can literally feel the joy being expressed in Chapters 8 & 9. The joy felt by God in the creation of the universe (and all of its different components - ie. mountains, lakes, trees, flowers, animals, insects etc.) and the creation of Adam & Eve. The joy felt by God when He turns His face to us and the joy we feel when He does this. The joy expressed by the Father and the Holy Spirit at the baptism of Jesus (who, I'm sure, felt joy as well). The joy displayed by the Father, Son & the Holy Spirit towards each other and towards us. The joy (and trepidation) felt by Elizabeth & Zechariah, as well as Mary, at the news of their pregnancies. When Jesus was born, joy swept through Israel. Can you imagine the joy you would feel if you suffered any of the ailments that Jesus healed in his time on earth? Can you feel the joy that Jesus felt in doing His Father's will and in healing His followers? As Alastair states "As the Messiah , He came not only to give us joy but to crown us with an everlasting joy." Thank you Lord! Gotta go, the rest of the book awaits.
The last sentence in Chapter 10 says it all. What joy!! In Chapter 11, Alastair writes "Does the promise of complete joy imply that all other joys fall short? Not in my opinion." Nor mine. I can find joy in reading a book, walking a dog or even some occasions washing dishes. May we all find joy in different things.
My last comment for the night. I’m enjoying chapter 1 alone and have underlined so many lines that I want to ponder over. The timing of reading this is just what I needed today. Funny how that is :) Sadly I won’t be able to make the zoom session on Thursday. I’ll be attending a small group. But please do share comments. So rather than wrestle with my imperfections as you have stated Alastair, I trust Gods grace for beauty to be birthed from it. Loving your use of words.
I was felling that “laughter of the heart” for a few days, then I had an encounter which has made me struggle with my worth but I know that this too shall pass
Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal,” 2 Corinthians 4:16-18
I have just finished the book and I think I am feeling a little sad. Why? I’m not sure because I have learned some new things about myself. Maybe I’m sad because I have finished reading it and I feel this way every time I finish reading something I really like.
This weeks assigned reading was the last 5 chapters plus the epilogue. Alastair is bang on when he says there is joyful liberation in service. We get our mind off ourselves and concentrate on helping others. He tells us to view our life as a gift. Everything that we are entrusted with should be shared. When we do share, it brings joy.
To me, the lesson to be learned from the chapter on Creation was “Open Your Eyes” to what God has created. There is beauty everywhere if we look hard enough for it.
Suffering is not something we are good at whether it is us or someone else who is suffering. Some 35 years ago, I went through a depression. One of the many pieces of advice I got was from my boss. He said I had to start celebrating the small successes in life. So things like getting out of bed, going for a walk or go out in public were reasons to celebrate and sometimes even joyously.
Expressing gratitude to others is certainly a way to bring joy into your life and the life of others. Saying please and thank you to others when requesting something almost always guarantees a favorable result. Expressing gratitude to God for the people around us, our surroundings and the situations we find ourselves in brings joy to us. We just have to make it part of our daily life.
God has a way of redeeming unintended consequences of not using time wisely. When our youngest daughter was 7, we adopted a 4 year old boy who was autistic. For the next 9 years, basically all of our attention was focused on this boy. We just did not have the time or energy to deal with our young daughter to the extent that we wanted to. Years later, I was prompted (by God?) to go & apologize to her for this inaction. She was quick to forgive us and the relationship has blossomed into a relationship that has never been better. Bottom line – take the time to love your kids, love the people around you and love your surroundings and do it with joy in your heart.
What is joy? And, why is joy so elusive
Joy is that emotion/feeling/state where in that particular moment – everything is right in your own little world. No concern for how we look, no worries about family or friends, no apprehension about work, no negative thoughts about money issues, no thoughts about the state of affairs in our city, country or the world etc. You are just wrapped up in whatever you are doing at that particular moment. I don’t agree with you when you write “A more accurate portrait of joy includes the pang—the inconsolable longing and unsatisfied desire that accompanies her. This challenges portraits of joy that focus exclusively on her lightheartedness.” Joy is no longer joy when this longing and unsatisfied desire appears. It becomes something less than joy – mere satisfaction or something even less? - Ken Broadhead
Thanks for this really thoughtful comment, Ken! I'll be interested to hear what you think about the pang of joy once you read Chapter 5: Longing. I might not persuade you, but I suspect it'll at least spark some good conversation :)
I have read Chapter 5 quickly and will be going over it more closely later this week. When I read your Invitation and you discussed your severe depression, I was struck by your description of joy coming back into your life. You were sitting on your couch but not doing anything else. You were not conciously thinking of anything else when joy came back. I think the reason for joy to make an appearance was that God saw that you had made "room" for joy to come back and, by His grace, it did.
Comments on Chapter 5 - Joy is the MSG of emotions and she does stir us up for more. And that’s why we go back to what was gave us joy in the first place –reading a book, eating your favorite food, going dancing etc. But the joy only lasts for as long as we are reading the book, eating our favorite food or dancing the night away. I will concede that the joy might last a little longer but then she “slips through our fingers.” Joy, like other emotions, is not a constant companion for most, if not all of us. When we experience a longing for something, we do have that ache or pang for it. But I don’t agree with C.S. Lewis that joy includes these things. You (Alastair) suggest “it’s easier to embrace a reductionistic picture of joy. We prefer joy to show her best side ...” You go on to say “... the moment we become aware of joy she waves and skips away. Then our hearts rejoice and ache as her shadow stretches and then fades.” I have difficulty with agreeing that joy waves and skips away the moment we become aware of it. I think we can hold on to the joy after becoming aware of it. I believe that once we feel that ache, the joy is gone. Or at least something less than joy is present. If this is considered a reductionistic picture of joy, then I guess I view it as such.
Alastair, this is the most interesting part of the book to date. I am looking forward to the rest of it.
I relate to what you say Joy is Ken and true when we feel a longing and desires are unsatisfied it feels less than joyful. As I read this, the words “count it all joy” came to me which led me to look up the verse
“My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.”
James 1:2-4
Testing and producing patience for sure but not always easy sitting with it.
I know it's a grammatical error, but I agree fully heartedly that "Joy is Ken." :)
So why is joy so elusive? - It is so elusive for a number of reasons. 1) Our attention is directed at too many things at once. We are seldom able to devote our concentration on one thing for any period of time. We have allowed the cell phone to “rule” us. When that phone rings or we hear the “ping” of a new message coming in, we stop everything to deal with it. How many times do you check your phone every day? 2) The demands of our family or work life and even our recreational life make for a lot of opportunities for joy to be missed. The widespread use of drugs by young people who live at home has caused enormous disruption to “normal” family life for the other members and has resulted in many cases of joy turned to despair, anger etc. The work life for many people brings them no real joy. It could be just general dissatisfaction, low pay, bad work environment etc. 3) The economical state of the country – whether it is the high cost of rent or mortgage, the high cost of food or the cost of utilities – has caused for an absence of joy in many situations. You are hard pressed to be joyful when you know you don’t have enough money to pay rent & buy food. There are people who work 2 and sometimes 3 part time jobs to make ends meet. 4) The mental state of many people can find no reason for joy. In Canada, suicide is the second leading cause of death for those aged between 15-34. One only has to look at the death rate by drug overdose in this province to see that something is wrong here. In 2021, 12.3 million Americans had suicidal thoughts. I’m sure there are people who feel the only place they will find joy is in the dictionary.
Not to be overly spiritual about it but I think Joy is a fruit of the Spirit, and is elusive in good part because the Spirit is. There are patterns and ways of participating with both, but neither can be captured or altogether “figured out”, or something like that.
Love this, Delmar. You'll like how Charles Mathewes says joy is spoken in the 'middle voice.' Neither active nor passive but participation in a gift.
Joy is in part, a deep sense of contentment, with a bubbling-over type of excitement to it (her), not driven or rocked by our circumstances. Before beginning to read this book, I jotted down that Joy cannot be cultivated by us, but is provided as a gift from God, as it transcends our human emotions. I am excited to explore how this cultivation might occur!
Ooo! Calling joy 'her'! I like it! You're on top of your reading :) It seems everyone in the comments, thus far, feel the tension between the giftedness of joy and our role in experiencing joy. I do hope my book will help clarify our part in it all.
I am honestly having a hard time putting this book down! It's beautifully written and completely captivating!
Joy is when my whole body is smiling inside and out.
Overthinking takes away my joy. The enemy tries to remind me of things I don’t like about myself which is distracting and takes away my joy.
It’s not a good feeling but I keep reminding myself what God loves about me. Sometimes it’s an uncomfortable process but it does bring me back to joy. I believe it’s God trying to tell me, be still and know that I am God as I ask, what are you trying to reveal to me. Bring me back to just being wholly with you
I love how you see the embodiment of joy! Gerald Arbuckle says joy is "laughter of the heart." That makes me think of how you see joy as your body smiling inside and out. I too see a connection between love and joy. Actually, I see joy as a dance between the love and peace of God. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Linda!
Oh I love that! Laughter of the Heart! Soooo good
Joy is a fruit of the Spirit and a by product of trusting in God’s plan & daily giving ourselves over to God’s will. It’s part of God’s peace beyond understanding and an inner knowledge that everything will work out for the best. When God leads it gives us freedom. And we need to ask for joy and believe it can be ours.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Pam! You get at the need for intentionality nicely. We can't manufacture joy but we can certainly keep our hearts open to it.
Chapter 7 leaves me smiling and a sense of joy. I can almost hear God saying "good, good, very good."
You can literally feel the joy being expressed in Chapters 8 & 9. The joy felt by God in the creation of the universe (and all of its different components - ie. mountains, lakes, trees, flowers, animals, insects etc.) and the creation of Adam & Eve. The joy felt by God when He turns His face to us and the joy we feel when He does this. The joy expressed by the Father and the Holy Spirit at the baptism of Jesus (who, I'm sure, felt joy as well). The joy displayed by the Father, Son & the Holy Spirit towards each other and towards us. The joy (and trepidation) felt by Elizabeth & Zechariah, as well as Mary, at the news of their pregnancies. When Jesus was born, joy swept through Israel. Can you imagine the joy you would feel if you suffered any of the ailments that Jesus healed in his time on earth? Can you feel the joy that Jesus felt in doing His Father's will and in healing His followers? As Alastair states "As the Messiah , He came not only to give us joy but to crown us with an everlasting joy." Thank you Lord! Gotta go, the rest of the book awaits.
Ken, I'm so glad Part Two is resonating with you! Trinitarian joy is everything!
The last sentence in Chapter 10 says it all. What joy!! In Chapter 11, Alastair writes "Does the promise of complete joy imply that all other joys fall short? Not in my opinion." Nor mine. I can find joy in reading a book, walking a dog or even some occasions washing dishes. May we all find joy in different things.
My last comment for the night. I’m enjoying chapter 1 alone and have underlined so many lines that I want to ponder over. The timing of reading this is just what I needed today. Funny how that is :) Sadly I won’t be able to make the zoom session on Thursday. I’ll be attending a small group. But please do share comments. So rather than wrestle with my imperfections as you have stated Alastair, I trust Gods grace for beauty to be birthed from it. Loving your use of words.
Thank you
I was felling that “laughter of the heart” for a few days, then I had an encounter which has made me struggle with my worth but I know that this too shall pass
Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal,” 2 Corinthians 4:16-18
I have just finished the book and I think I am feeling a little sad. Why? I’m not sure because I have learned some new things about myself. Maybe I’m sad because I have finished reading it and I feel this way every time I finish reading something I really like.
This weeks assigned reading was the last 5 chapters plus the epilogue. Alastair is bang on when he says there is joyful liberation in service. We get our mind off ourselves and concentrate on helping others. He tells us to view our life as a gift. Everything that we are entrusted with should be shared. When we do share, it brings joy.
To me, the lesson to be learned from the chapter on Creation was “Open Your Eyes” to what God has created. There is beauty everywhere if we look hard enough for it.
Suffering is not something we are good at whether it is us or someone else who is suffering. Some 35 years ago, I went through a depression. One of the many pieces of advice I got was from my boss. He said I had to start celebrating the small successes in life. So things like getting out of bed, going for a walk or go out in public were reasons to celebrate and sometimes even joyously.
Expressing gratitude to others is certainly a way to bring joy into your life and the life of others. Saying please and thank you to others when requesting something almost always guarantees a favorable result. Expressing gratitude to God for the people around us, our surroundings and the situations we find ourselves in brings joy to us. We just have to make it part of our daily life.
God has a way of redeeming unintended consequences of not using time wisely. When our youngest daughter was 7, we adopted a 4 year old boy who was autistic. For the next 9 years, basically all of our attention was focused on this boy. We just did not have the time or energy to deal with our young daughter to the extent that we wanted to. Years later, I was prompted (by God?) to go & apologize to her for this inaction. She was quick to forgive us and the relationship has blossomed into a relationship that has never been better. Bottom line – take the time to love your kids, love the people around you and love your surroundings and do it with joy in your heart.
Thank you Alastair for your book!