What do you do if you inherit a cedar waxwing named Bandit? Even more, he can’t fly—something’s wrong with his wing. You know nothing about birds, but suddenly you’re responsible for this fragile life. You can’t just Google “cedar waxwing care” and call it good. You have to live life on the terms of this yet-to-be-known creature, watching his face, learning that he’s only happy when he can see yours, discovering that you’ve become his flock.
This is the story Dr. Esther Lightcap Meek shared to illustrate her life’s work: real knowing isn’t about collecting information—it’s about entering relationship.
Dr. Meek is a philosopher who has spent her career asking one of the best questions: How do you know what you know? She’s Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at Geneva College and author of influential books including A Little Manual for Knowing and Doorway to Artistry.
In our conversation, we explore how the modernist approach to knowledge—treating it as information to be collected—is actually killing our capacity to truly know anything. Esther argues for what she calls “covenant epistemology,” where we pledge ourselves to the yet-to-be-known and discover that reality itself is welcoming us first. When we realize that we love in order to know, everything changes about how we approach learning, creativity, and even our relationship with God.
If you’ve ever felt disconnected from wonder, struggled with the limits of purely rational approaches to faith, or sensed that there’s something more to knowing than accumulating facts, this conversation offers a different way forward. It’s an opportunity to discover what Esther calls the “loving to know mindset”—and to realize that you’ve been doing it all your life.
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